------------------------------------------------------Originally Posted by slick69
Good luck to anyone who think that there is chi sau in there.
Registered User
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Good luck to anyone who think that there is chi sau in there.
Registered User
It's easy to armchair, and I give them credit for putting it out there.
BBBUUUTTTTT
A Positive: To be fair, Kev does a good job of maintaining his composure, self centerline and not over extending in response to whatever it is Obasi thinks is wing chun.
A Negative: WTF is Obasi even doing? Leaning WAY fwd and just pushing - to the point both his feet come off the ground several times.No self centerline, no control & no wing chun IMO.
What chi sau is, or isn't, or is, or wait, what is it..: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...2&postcount=90
Registered User
Come on Kev is consistently being hit and not once landing a strike back on Obassi. Whatever you think of his structure, he is consistently about to get through and Kev can not do anything about it.It's easy to armchair, and I give them credit for putting it out there.
BBBUUUTTTTT
A Positive: To be fair, Kev does a good job of maintaining his composure, self centerline and not over extending in response to whatever it is Obasi thinks is wing chun.
A Negative: WTF is Obasi even doing? Leaning WAY fwd and just pushing - to the point both his feet come off the ground several times.
Registered User
Kevin seems to be in the mind frame of doing the chi sao drill, where as Shawn seems to in the mode of a fight. Not a good comparison of chi sao skills, it's comparing apples to oranges. To get a fair comparison Kevin should either fight or shawn should stay within the context of chi sao
Registered User
I agree completely. At least Kevin is doing WC and maintaining his structure. I'm not sure what Obasi was doing. Did you notice what Keven said as they broke apart at the end ...around 0:33? I couldn't hear very well, but it sounds like he said "This isn't our Chi Sau." Obasi responds "But what is it?". Yeah Shaun, what the heck were you doing? Anyway, it's good to see people posting clips. Props for that.
Red Boat Fighter
thing is, if youre doing chi sao and someone starts breaking out of the boundaries of the drill and sparring or fighting you should be able to sense that just like you're supposed to sense everything going on in chi sao, (that's what its for after all) and just adapt with them and if they want to bang you have to match their violence and intent and may have to put them down hard. or they'll smash you. i think chi sao is a great drill in its context but you can see how hard it is to get people on the same page of "what it is", so should account for someone "not doing chi sao" by your own systems drills or definition and be able to adapt in real time and turn the volume up or down depending on the flow. if you insist on a drill when someone's punching you in the mouth then you need to step it up or step back and reassess what youre doing.
Lumberjack
My take....
Chi-Sao is used as a hand-coordination drill meant to reinforce habits that benefit your behavior and body mechanics when sparring. Forward pressure is maintained without compromising balance and mobility. Arms are put in contact to work on punching power in each roll through the Luk-Sao platform, but not for contact's sake. Hand actions' primary focus is to strike when the way is open, without being conditional to first grabbing/controlling the opponent's arms, thus increasing striking readiness. Elbow-hip connection and resulting power generation are by-products of the Chi-Sao platform. Facing (Chiu-Yin) is worked on through hip and foot position. Recognizing the artificial situation created by the Luk-Sao platform and the resulting pitfalls and limitations, care is taken to avoid actions that only exist in Chi-Sao ("Chi-Sao tricks") and do not transfer to a non-contact situation. Along this thinking, there are no "Chi-Sao Challenge Matches", it's just a drill performed in a certain way to attain specific skills. Productive Chi-Sao where you are still reaping the benefits of the drill is not fighting as it lacks other skills necessary when fighting. Finally, if you want to confirm whether Chi-Sao training is transferring into actual fighting skill, just spar!
I think that Kevin is on the same page with the above, this being the reason why he paused the work-out with Shawn. It was just a short clip, so who knows what else they trained on and talked about when they met.
Dio perdona... Io no!
Registered User
+ 1 for what Mutant said
http://cykwoon.freewebspace.com/
https://www.youtube.com/user/Subitai
"O"..."Some people believe that you need to make another human being tap out to be a valid art. But I am constantly reminding them that I only have to defend myself and keep you from hurting me in order to Win."
"O"..."The Hung Style practiced solely in methods of Antiquity would ultimately only be useful versus Similar skill sets"
Registered User
This.A Negative: WTF is Obasi even doing? Leaning WAY fwd and just pushing - to the point both his feet come off the ground several times.
The only fighting system I see Shawn displaying is the little-known martial art of "I'll beat you to death with my face and chin". I believe that one was invented by 12 year olds on playgrounds.
learn->practice->habit->reflex->instinct
Registered User
Well apparently neither did Kevin think there was chi sau there. At the end he says "This, er, isn't chi sau" to which Shawn replied, "well what is it?". As Kevin begins to explain "well it's er...", Shawn interrupts and looks to the camera, with a slightly disappointed look, and waves his hand commanding the camera man to "stop". I assume that because Shawn just wants to try to embarrass people and make a name for himself, a little bit of information was superfluous to his video recording purposes. Is it me or are we seeing an agenda here between Izzo, Shawn, the 52blocks guys and a few others?
Last edited by Paddington; 01-31-2014 at 05:17 AM.
Registered User
The agenda is always the same - people promoting themselves/their method. To be fair, I think Kevin said: "This isn't our Chi Sau."
Maybe Obassi is doing the Wing Chun that Kevin used to do and so Obassi is thinking using the conceptual framework that Kevin tells us he's moved on from now that he has a real understanding of what VT is.
But seriously, the problem for me is not Obassi's agenda or that the Gor Sau was recorded, but what we see in it. I didn't expect to see any quality from Obassi, but I was a bit shocked to see this from Kevin. Obassi's attacks might have been all over the place, but he's a big guy and he put the pressure on... and Kevin was defending rather than... well, the things he talks about when describing PBVT on this forum.
I'm a little shocked as Kevin has spent many, many posts telling people here that their Wing Chun is based on misconceptions and faulty logic, and yet when a big chap in Gor Sau applies some pressure, I don't see from Kevin the superior method he's been pitching.
Registered User
I think to be fair to Kevin he held his own against a stronger guy. I could clearly see PBVT and you can tell he has a sound understanding of his boxing forms and how they use shapes and strucrure.The agenda is always the same - people promoting themselves/their method. To be fair, I think Kevin said: "This isn't our Chi Sau."
Maybe Obassi is doing the Wing Chun that Kevin used to do and so Obassi is thinking using the conceptual framework that Kevin tells us he's moved on from now that he has a real understanding of what VT is.
But seriously, the problem for me is not Obassi's agenda or that the Gor Sau was recorded, but what we see in it. I didn't expect to see any quality from Obassi, but I was a bit shocked to see this from Kevin. Obassi's attacks might have been all over the place, but he's a big guy and he put the pressure on... and Kevin was defending rather than... well, the things he talks about when describing PBVT on this forum.
I'm a little shocked as Kevin has spent many, many posts telling people here that their Wing Chun is based on misconceptions and faulty logic, and yet when a big chap in Gor Sau applies some pressure, I don't see from Kevin the superior method he's been pitching.
Obasi is just freeing it up and not so regermented. Both guys are good my my humble opion.
Registered User
On Obassi's Facebook page he was at first promoting a "challenge fight", but later came back and said he changed his mind about fighting but still went to meet him.
What it looks like is Obassi asked him to chi-sau, which Kevin looked like he was trying to do (it's a cooperative drill), but Obassi's motive was to spazz out trying to fight him... or something, whatever he was doing.
A cheap tactic to make Kevin look bad and himself good?
Epic fail on both ends.
Registered User
epic fail, kevin could handle any forward pressure without moving backwards, didnt land any strikes and got lit up like a christmas tree, all in about 25 seconds, if it had been a challenge fight i know who my money would have been on lol
Registered User
Where do you see that he got "lit up"? Obassi was just doing a whole bunch of nothing. If I were in the same situation, I too would have paused and asked Obassi quizzically if he actually wanted to do chi-sau or just fight- because he was doing neither. Kevin just looked confused as to what they were actually supposed to be doing.
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