Author Matthew Polly is no stranger to the distinctive genre martial arts non-fiction books. His first two books, American Shaolin and Tapped Out, were personal accounts of his experiences at the Shaolin Temple of China and within the gyms and cage of MMA. His third book is the first authoritative comprehensive biography of Bruce Lee: Bruce Lee – A Life.

Loyal readers of Kung Fu Tai Chi also know that he is a close personal friend of mine. Matt was the guide for my first pilgrimage to Shaolin Temple and is mentioned prominently in my own martial arts non-fiction book Shaolin Trips. If it was not for his influence, I doubt I'd be in the publisher's chair right now and who knows what would have become of our magazine?

Over the years, I've had the pleasure of discussing a multitude of martial topics with Matt. Now, with the publication of this new book, we got to chat about his research on one of our favorite martial heroes, the one and only Bruce Lee.

 

GC: What's your favorite Bruce Lee movie and why?

MP: ENTER THE DRAGON (1973) is my favorite because it changed my life. It inspired me to take up the martial arts, study at the Shaolin Temple in China for two years, and eventually become a writer.

If I had to pick a second favorite, it would be the last Cantonese movie Bruce made as a teenager in Hong Kong – THE ORPHAN (1960). Bruce plays an emotionally damaged and unbalanced youth unable to escape his past. From purely an acting, as opposed to an action, perspective, it is by far his most interesting performance.

GC: If Bruce were alive today, what do you think he would be doing?

MP: I’ve always joked that if Bruce Lee had been born later he would have been a rapper. He had the swagger, the cocky bravado, the sly wit, and the self-centeredness of a Kanye West or 50 Cent or Eminem.

If Bruce hadn’t died is an entire genre of fiction. I’ve read a number of short stories based on the premise. One thing is for sure; he’d be all over Twitter. He loved short aphorisms and jokes. He was also an anchor baby, so he would hate Trump. Bruce and George Takei would retweet each other constantly.

Bruce wanted to be a bigger star than Steve McQueen, but he modeled his career after Clint Eastwood who went to Italy, just as Bruce went to Hong Kong, to make it in Hollywood. As an artist, Bruce would have followed in Eastwood’s footsteps—acting in movies, trying out different genres besides just action, for about a decade or two, before eventually gravitating behind the camera as a director and producer. Ultimately being in control of his art was more important to Bruce than the adoration and fame that comes from acting.

As a person, Bruce would have continued down his spiritual path, written a number of books about mysticism and self-help, and been a regular guest on Oprah. 

GC: What were some of your favorite discoveries while researching Bruce?

MP: I was amused to discover he was such a terrible driver and yet he only got into one minor accident. People were afraid to drive with him, but somehow out of a combination of luck and reflexes he never crashed his car.

GC: What discovery of Bruce Lee surprised you the most?

MP: One amusing surprise from my research was the discovery he was a bit of a pothead. In the magazines of my youth, he was always portrayed as almost an ascetic—a martial monk whose body was his temple. I was delighted by this human dimension. James Coburn said, “He’d want to get high and have a ball, listen to music. Blowing Gold was one of his favorite things.” Bruce was a bit of a hippie in the '60s.

GC: You've been in the martial world for years and you know how catty we can be. Are you worried about the reaction the martial community might have to your new book?

MP: My wife wants to unlist our phone number. Personally, I am going to be offended if nobody challenges me to a bareknuckle match. Kidding! But the truth is, if a biographer doesn't offend someone, then he didn't do his job. We are not P.R. agents. Our job is to describe who someone is and what they did over the course of their life as accurately, thoroughly, and fairly as possible. My motto is: "Don't defend or criticize, explain."

GC: There's a lot of revelations in your book that show Bruce in an unfavorable light.  How do you think the fanboys (and fangirls) might react?

MP: More than perhaps any other celebrity Bruce is a revered figure, because he inspired millions to study the martial arts and the study of the martial arts changed their lives for the better. I know, because I am one of those people. I'm sure there will be a few who would rather I had written a whitewashed version of Bruce's life, but I think most will be able to tell that I have real affection and admiration for Bruce Lee, not despite his faults but because of them. If he was perfect, his accomplishments wouldn't be remarkable. It is exactly because of his weaknesses that his achievements are so much more amazing.

GC: I’ve also interviewed Bruce’s widow, Linda Lee Cadwell, and his daughter Shannon, but I didn’t approach anything potentially scandalous.  Was that awkward?

MP: In the course of my research, I discovered that Brandon was born 5 1/2 months after Bruce and Linda got married. In her two books, Linda never addressed the issue and no other Bruce Lee biography has ever mentioned it. It seems a rather important detail to skip or miss. I did the math a dozen times to make sure I wasn't mistaken. For weeks before my interview with Linda, I debated how to ask her the question. I was afraid she might end the interview and kick me out of the room. You never know where the lines are until you meet a person. Towards the end of our interview, I just said, "I hope this is not an offensive question, but Brandon was born 5 1/2 months after you and Bruce got married. Was he premature or, you know, were you already pregnant?" She kind of laughed at me, "Brandon wasn't premature." That was it. She wasn't bothered at all. I had fretted over that question needlessly.

GC: In your photos with Betty Ting Pei, she looks fabulous, so fashionably dressed with a sporty car.  How is she doing now?

MP: She was very charming to me. She kept taking me out to very fancy lunches and she wouldn't let me pay. I must have spent fifteen hours with her over a three-day period. She mostly wanted to talk about her Buddhist beliefs. She would get very emotional when I steered her back to Bruce, particularly the circumstances surrounding his death. At one point she yelled at me, "What does it matter? Why do you keep pushing? He's dead! What does it matter?" Interviewing Betty was something of an endurance contest. I probably got an hour of relevant material out of 15 hours of conversation. But it was information she has never told another Western reporter, so it was worth it.

GC: Meeting with Benny "The Jet" Urquidez, Bob Wall, and Don "The Dragon" Wilson must have been extraordinary.  How was that for you?

MP: Bob Wall is a classic Irishman. I have uncles like him: expansive personality, very charming when he wants to be, lots of blarney, terrible temper. Benny was super chill and cool. Don "The Dragon" Wilson was like most Hollywood actors: instantly charming, always on the hustle, self-involved—talking about all the big names he knows and the big movie projects he's working on.

GC: Your book reveals the intense racial prejudice that Lee faced as an Asian in America.  In these racially-charged times, do you think Asian Americans might reject you as a Bruce Lee biographer that’s not Asian?

MP: I doubt it'll be a problem. But if anyone objects, my response will be that they are missing the point of Bruce Lee's life and message. Despite criticism from Ruby Chow and other Chinese chauvinists, he accepted Jesse Glover, an African-American, as his first Kung Fu disciple in America. He taught students of all ethnic backgrounds without prejudice. When asked if he thought of himself as Chinese or American, Bruce said, "I think of myself as a human being, because under the sky, there is but one family. It just so happens that people are different."

It is worth pointing out that Bruce was Eurasian. Growing up in Hong Kong, he faced discrimination for not being fully Chinese. He got it from both sides of the East/West divide.

GC: While uncovering some of Lee’s more scandalous past, did you ever find yourself disillusioned by the legends of Lee?

MP: I don't think anything I uncovered was particularly scandalous or shocking. He was a Hong Konger from a wealthy family working as an actor in 1960s Hollywood. He smoked some pot and had a few affairs. His grandfather had 13 concubines. His father smoked opium. His role model was Steve McQueen who took every drug known to man and slept with every woman in a hundred-mile radius. Bruce never pretended to be perfect. When a journalist asked him about bad behavior in the entertainment industry, Bruce joked, "I'm not as bad as some of them. But I'm definitely not saying I am a saint." The mistake people made over the years was confusing Bruce Lee the man with the character he played in ENTER THE DRAGON, a celibate Shaolin monk.

The only time I got upset with Bruce was when he bought the Porsche 911. His wife was pregnant with their second child, Shannon. They had just bought a house in Bel Air for more money than they could afford. A month later, he runs out and buys a Porsche so he can compete with Steve McQueen. Less than a year later he severely injures his back and his wife has to get a crappy job to support the family because they can't pay the mortgage. When I was researching the Porsche, I was literally yelling at Bruce, "Don't buy it! Don't buy it! You're gunna need the money later!"

Betty Ting Pei & Matt Polly

 

GC: After being immersed in this book project for the last six years of your life, are you still a Bruce Lee fanboy?

MP: More so than I was before. I never realized just how hard it was for him to become the first Chinese male actor to star in a Hollywood movie. The racism he had to overcome was immense. What he did was so impossible it took another 25 years before another Chinese actor, Jackie Chan, was able to replicate his accomplishment in RUSH HOUR (1998).

GC: After all of your research, do you think Bruce Lee lives up to his legend in terms of his martial mastery?

MP: No one could live up to the legend in some fans' imaginations. To them he is invincible, unstoppable, the greatest fighter to have ever lived. That's silly. There are 7 billion people on the planet—somebody is always better. Bruce was a great martial artist and an excellent fighter, but he was 5'7" and 135 lbs. Anyone who says size doesn't matter has never been in the ring.

GC: So what's your next book?  Don't say a Harlequin romance. 

MP: If I can get out of my NDA with Donald Trump, I'm going to write about our affair. If not, I'm toying with the idea of writing a narrative history of the martial arts.