Around the turn of the millennium, when I first began working for KungFuMagazine.com, I was getting inundated by a ton of Wing Chun article submissions, so much so that I had to put the quash on them. Honestly, if you’re not a Wing Chunner, how many articles can you read about Sil Nim Tao? And I do not mean that out of any disrespect whatsoever. Wing Chun is the most prominent form of Kung Fu in the world alongside Shaolin (and many place it under the Shaolin parasol because of the Five Elders legend). The global impact of Wing Chun cannot be denied.

A new book on Wing Chun has emerged from two noted European authors: Wing Chun In-Depth: Skills for Combat, Strategies for Life by Munawar Ali Karim and Loukas Kastrounis. Karim is a combatives instructor, natural movement coach, Montessori educator and martial artist with an interest in history and sacred tradition who is based in the United Kingdom. Among the myriad of martial arts that he studies, he trains Wing Chun under Sifu Kastrounis. Kastournis is a third-generation direct descendant of Great Grand Master Yip Man through Sifu Wong Shun Leung, also based in the United Kingdom. He is also founder of the European Wing Chun Association and travels frequently to teach and conduct seminars around the world.

Although Wing Chun In-Depth: Skills for Combat, Strategies for Life does go into details about Sil Nim Tau (spelled tau instead of tao) once more, it also examines Wing Chun through a broader historical lens, as well as explores its philosophical implications as a way of life. We chatted with both authors across the pond through email where Karim kindly acted as translator for Sifu Kastrounis

GC: How big is the martial arts community in England?

LK: England has always been the centre of martial arts for years due to the fact that great masters of various martial arts from Asia, USA, and Europe, over the years have established schools, created courses, events, and seminars in England.As a consequence, the martial arts community in England is enormous.

Today, it has lots of martial arts training schools and big martial arts associations and organizations.  National and international events are regularly taking place in England like seminars, competitions, and courses.

GC: How does that compare with the martial arts community in Europe overall?

LK: Both Europe and England have very large martial arts communities. I have training schools in England and Greece. Prior to Covid-19, I had martial arts schools inIreland,France, and Italy, as well as students from many other parts of Europe.

GC: How big is the Kung Fu community specifically in England?

LK: Chinese Kung Fu in England has always been very big. As I mentioned before, great Chinese masters over the years have established good training schools and Kung Fu still remains very popular in England. 

GC: How much of the martial arts community in England practice Wing Chun?

LK: Back in eighties and nineties, Wing Chun was not as popular in England as it is today.There were just a few schools available.  The Wing Chun community has vastly grown in England & generally in UK.Nowadays there are many Wing Chun training schools, but the exact number its extremely difficult to estimate. 

GC: Wing Chun is one of the more famous styles of Kung Fu - why do you think that is?

LK: I do believe that thousands of people got motivated by the influence of Bruce Lee and his background of Wing Chun. Without taking anything from Bruce Lee, Wing Chun has a long history, and it has other famous Wing Chun teachers and practitioners.

It’s very practical style of Kung Fu, very practical and applicable to the daily life, and protecting one`s self. It’s simple, very direct and efficient, has economy of motions. It’s a compete fighting system with mental and physical fitness and other health benefits.Overall its very good style of Kung Fu for personal development regardless of the age and gender. 

GC: Although Bruce Lee’s foundation was in Wing Chun, he would later go on to reject what he called the ‘classical mess.’ What do you think about this?

LK: Bruce Lee is widely recognized as a martial arts icon and a pioneer in the field of martial arts films. While he initially trained in Wing Chun and greatly respected its principles, he never completed the Wing Chun system. Also as a historical fact, Chinese community was not happy of Bruce Lee teaching Wing Chun to non-Chinese in USA. Then he eventually developed his own martial art based on the Wing Chun Philosophy called Jeet Kune Do. Jeet Kune Do translates to “intercepting fist”, which has the same principle as Wing Chun: ”receive what comes, follow what goes, strike when is emptiness” I think Bruce Lee with his Jeet Kune Do was trying to encourage practitioners to focus from the beginning into real-life combat situations.

In my personal opinion, Wing Chun is more than a system of fighting. It’s a system of thought and it’s not rigid, and for novice Wing Chun practitioners, it is essential to learn first the  “classical mess“ and “rigid” (as Bruce Lee called it) Wing Chun forms, and fixed patterns, before they develop their skills to practical effectiveness in real-life combat situations.

MAK: Bruce Lee is a really fascinating person in the history of Wing Chun. My feeling is that although he ‘rejected the classical mess’ he did not reject everything ‘classical’. Sifu Loukas used to have this iconic poster of Bruce Lee above one of the wooden dummies in his school in Reading.  It’s a poster where Bruce Lee is in a fighting stance typical of his Jeet Kune Do. I think it may be a scene from one of his movies. I remember one time, whilst I was doing a private lesson with Sifu Loukas, we were moving around the kwoon – perhaps it was chi sau – and suddenly Loukas froze to demonstrate something to me. He had his back to the poster and was explaining the advantage of his position in relation to mine. I looked up above his head and noticed he was in the exact same position as Bruce Lee in the poster. We both laughed and I remember Loukas saying that Bruce Lee never really left the principles of Wing Chun. I think this is true. You’ll have to read the book to learn more about his relationship with Ip Man and Wong Shun Leung. I don’t want to give too much away here!

GC: Did Donnie Yen’s Ip Man movies affect Wing Chun practitioners in England?

LK: Certainly Donnie Yen`s excellent performance in the Ip Man movies has increased tremendously the popularity of Wing Chun in England and the rest of the world.    

MAK: The Ip Man movies have brought Wing Chun to the attention of an even wider audience – and especially to a younger generation – not only in the U.K. but throughout the world. This has attracted new people to learning Wing Chun but has also unfortunately provided an opportunity for some people to exploit the demand for their own gain.

So we have an increase of inexperienced people masquerading as Wing Chun masters teaching students incorrectly and taking advantage of their enthusiasm to make financial gain. This trend is common in martial arts and in all disciplines that are of value and use to people. There are always charlatans and pretenders that claim to speak in the name of an art to take advantage of people. When they do this, they not only harm their students but also the reputation of the art, because outside observers do not easily differentiate between genuine teachers of a tradition and the pretenders. The poor techniques of such teachers become associated with Wing Chun, giving people a false impression of what is a very effective approach to self-defense and combat.

The Ip Man movies present a very romanticized impression of Ip Man and are quite loose with the historical facts. They’re great entertainment, and if I remember correctly, there was a great deal of technical Wing Chun consultancy – at least in the early movies. So you do get to see Wing Chun techniques and skills being applied. But of course, real combat is not the same as in the movies. As Sun Tzu wrote many centuries ago ‘To win without fighting, that is the supreme excellence.’ From what I recall from the first movie– and I have not seen all the movies – they present Ip Man as a person of great character. He is not only someone who is good at fighting, he is rather a person of forbearance, courage and dignity. For me, this captures what Wing Chun is meant to be – or should be. Certainly, the practice of Wing Chun with the right mindset, can help improve character. This is often missed – even by many Wing Chun practitioners. In fact, very often the opposite happens. I hope this book will direct people’s attention towards a practical way to develop the sort of Ip Man character portrayed in those movies.

GC: There has been so much written about Wing Chun already. What does Wing Chun In-Depth add to this body of literature?

MAK: Wing Chun In-Depth tells the history of Wing Chun from the historical evidence and narrates its development into modern times. It draws out aspects of the lives of Wing Chun masters in the context of their times and presents some interesting insight into the origins of Wing Chun which is seldom spoken about.

It traces the Ip Man lineage from his teachers, to Wong Shun Leung and down to Sifu Loukas. It not only touches on the basics of Wing Chun, but goes much deeper, revealing technical details and fighting principles rarely disclosed in Wing Chun books and so it opens a window into the teachings of Sifu Loukas that you could only experience by learning directly from him. And, speaking as a student of Wing Chun, I can tell you that teachers like Loukas are rare.

Finally, it shows how Wing Chun principles can be used in all aspects of life – with clear examples that can be implemented immediately by readers regardless of who they are. All the technical parts of the book are richly illustrated with attention to detail and the narrative parts of the book have been written to be a pleasure to read.

Altogether this achieves something really special for the reader: if you’ve ever wanted to know what Wing Chun from a genuine lineage looks like, what Wing Chun teachings are really about, how Wing Chun can be applied to fighting and beyond fighting then you’re going to love this book. And that’s why we wrote it. For people to get a better idea of what Wing Chun is, to love and appreciate its subtle depths, to help improve all aspects of their lives. This is what Wing Chun has done for me, and I see that this is what it has done for Sifu Loukas in his life-long dedication to this martial art. It can do the same for you, for anyone listening or reading this interview. This book can help you derive these benefits from Wing Chun.

LK: This book contains over thirty years of my notes through my training, my workand my experience with the Wing Chun system. It’s my life and discoveries through my teaching in 224 pages plus photos. 

I met Munawar Karim in 2010, a martial artist and a professional historian, and after having spent more than ten years collaborating together,my dream became a reality after YMAA published this book.The title of the book,Wing Chun In-Depth, describes the book very accurately.This book provides historical facts, historical development of Wing Chun to present time, philosophy, psychology, new ways of how to approach training, strategies for fighting skills, a way of life for personal and professional success, and a good understanding of that amazing Wing Chun system which is good for combat skills as well as for strategies for life. 

I believe it will inspire every reader regardless of martial arts knowledge, background, or experience.It’s informative, easy to understand, enjoyable to read.It’s a book for everyone and will bring out the very best of an individual.

GC: What inspired you to write Wing Chun In-Depth?

MAK: When Sifu Loukas asked me to work with him to write this book I was delighted. There are a lot of Wing Chun books out there – and some of them are quite good, but I couldn’t see anything that really did justice to the sort of Wing Chun that was being taught by Sifu Loukas. I wanted more people to see what Wing Chun can do for them and I wanted them to have a book that they could really enjoy reading – not only a manual and a practical guide, but also a genuinely enjoyable and rewarding read.

Both Sifu Loukas and I wanted this book to be a guide for different types of readers: Wing Chun practitioners seeking to go deeper in their training, martial arts enthusiasts wishing to expand their knowledge, people who love reading – especially history, and people who are looking to improve all aspects of their lifework, study, business, and family relations. There’s something here for everyone. And it all comes back to some very basic, easy to understand, principles of Wing Chun.

I also wanted readers to appreciate the connection with Wing Chun and Chinese history and culture. Finally, I wanted to share Sifu Loukas’s Wing Chun knowledge – which is rare despite the popularity of Wing Chun – with the wider world in a way that is enjoyable to read.

GC: Lineage is very important within Wing Chun. Why do you think that is?

LK: It's important to note that lineage holds significance in preserving tradition and ensuring the quality of instruction.Wing Chun lineage is one of the main guiding principles when evaluating the quality of skills.However, nowadays they are adding more weight to lineage than practitioner’s dedication and skills.

MAK: Learning martial arts – not only Wing Chun – from a genuine lineage gives some assurance that what you are learning really is authentic. It means that the teacher is passing down something precious that is being handed down through generations. If it's a living lineage, it means that the art has been tested and is evolving – not static and unchanging. In other words, each master will be adding his or her own flavor to the art and keeping it relevant. This is something we also wanted to convey through this book. Wing Chun is unfairly criticized by people who don’t understand it, and who simply see examples of so-called ‘Wing Chun’ from teachers who don’t actually have a lineage. These illusions need to be dispelled, so people can see what Wing Chun really is, and why it has had a fearsome reputation in the past.

There are quite a few lineages of Wing Chun with different nuances and approaches. I know that both Sifu and I both respect all of these traditional lineages. Wing Chun In-Depth is one of the very few books to present the Wong Shun Leung lineage. Master Wong Shun Leung was one of Ip Man’s main students and taught with his blessings during his lifetime. He was also a close friend, teacher, and mentor to Bruce Lee. Sifu Loukas, and the Wing Chun in this book, comes directly from Master Wong Shun Leung’s teachings.

GC: In Wing Chun In-Depth, you say that Wing Chun provides strategies for life. Can you give a concrete example of this?

MAK: There are some really distinctive features of Wing Chun’s approach to combat. Distinctive in the sense that you don't often find these in other fighting arts. For example, in Wing Chun we tend to move forward-even when the opponent is attacking. In a lot of other fighting arts, the instinct (and the instruction) is to move back. Through the practice of Wing Chun in training and in combat these principles become proven truths that can – with reflection – be translated directly into real life. Without giving too much away, in the book we look at how, for example, this understanding of forward moving energy can help you learn to master a new skill – like learning to play the piano or drive a car. In the book we look at four fundamental Wing Chun principles, what they mean, how to apply them and examples from real life where we can see these principles being applied. The examples include – business, military battles, education, and others. I don’t want to spoil people’s enjoyment of the book by giving too much away here but these are very real, very concrete principles that are sure to yield benefit. In fact, for me, even more than the fighting skills, it is these principles that are the real treasure of Wing Chun. Sifu Loukas often tells his students ‘Wing Chun makes you better at other things – not just fighting.’ This has certainly been my experience with Wing Chun and we have tried to show that in a way that has never been done before, at least to my knowledge, in a Wing Chun book.