Traditional Wushu can be understood as a body of knowledge originally developed and passed down through families, clans, and other small social groups, typically learned through oral instruction and demonstration from generation to generation around a fixed set of fundamental principles geared around combat. Under this definition, is not uncommon to find instructors that hold strong resistance to any change or innovation, advocating complete adherence to any established orthodoxy as the only accepted way to approach such traditions. In this interview, Master Instructor Narcyz Latecki (雷鐵客), voted as one of the Top One Hundred Extraordinary Martial Artists of the World and co-chairman of the International Wushu Sanshou Dao Association (IWSD), shares with us various thought-provoking views on this interesting and occasionally sensitive subject.
EA: Please tell us about your life before martial arts?
NL: I was born in 1969. I grew up in a Polish industrial city, so most of my childhood I used to hang out and play on the street; it was a pretty crazy and tough place. I was only 9 years old the very first time I tasted alcohol, but I quit smoking cigarettes at age 14, when I started practicing Karate. So, most of my friends growing up, if jail didn’t save them, now you can probably find them in a graveyard. My saver was the practice of traditional martial arts!
EA: Was Karate your first martial art in the early 80s?
NL: Well, I started my martial arts training together with my friends first, we started a kind of ‘fight club’ in a basement, where we punched heavy bags, lifted weights, and basically sparred with each other. Then, in 1983 I officially signed up for Kyokushin Karate classes. I remember very well being the 98th on the enrollment list, and I wasn’t the last one that signed up that day, but our instructor announced on our first class that by the end of the month he wanted to see only 25 of the best students, that those who didn’t try hard enough will not make it! I was in that class with a few buddies, big troublemakers all of them, and they did not last even through the first class! (laughs).
EA: Sounds very intense but also makes sense as martial arts training must include discipline and commitment. Can you describe what was your training like?
NL: My formal training began with 2-hour long classes, 3 times per week. One class was for Kata (forms), the second for strength and endurance, and third one was Kumite (sparring). Strength and endurance class always was outside on the stadium field, all seasons and weather conditions in bare feet! We would always start with 10 laps around a standard track. The last person would have to run an extra one, meanwhile the rest of us would have some time to rest. Sensei would teach us any new technique one time only, and next class he expected us to be able to perform everything we learned on the previous class. He always said: every day you must learn something new. So, we had to improve and get better every day. Another example, every day we had to try and extra pushup – one more than the day before. This type of training changed my life forever!
EA: And how was your transition to Chinese martial arts?
NL: From the very beginning I always wanted to learn Kung Fu, but the closest school was 2 hours away from my house and I had no way to get there. For almost 2 years, my Karate practice was kept secret from my parents, mainly because they would think that martial arts could help me become a street gangster or just get me killed. For this, it took a while for me to open-up. My first Sensei moved to another city, and the sport federation hired a new Sensei, this time from Shotokan Karate, with whom I practiced for another year. By then, my mother agreed to support my martial arts practice knowing that she could probably never change my mind out of it. I was practicing 6 hours a day by then and effectively staying out of trouble. So, I finally started Kung Fu classes under Master Tadeusz Gacki in 1985, who was in contact with Grandmaster Dr. Yang Jwing-Ming (杨俊敏), and was arranging his first visit to Poland for April of 1986.
EA: Is that how your affiliation to the International Wushu Sanshou Dao Association (IWSD) started?
NL: Right. In 1991, during Dr. Yang second visit, he told me that since I was so crazy about martial arts, that he would like me to come visit his school in Boston and sent me a couple invitations after that. By 1993, I was able to save enough money for the flight ticket and came to America with $500 in my pocket. I arrived at the Yang's Martial Arts Association (YMAA) headquarters in Boston, where I eventually became the main instructor, which helped me with my immigration status, becoming a US citizen. During that time, I also meet my second teacher, Grandmaster Liang Shouyu (梁守渝), with whom I always felt a very deep connection. With him I learned my two very first routines of Fanziquan (翻子拳lit. overturning/flipping fists). He always likes that I can learn very fast, so one day I also became his disciple or Tudi (徒弟).
EA: Tell us more about your experiences learning Fanziquan.
NL: I have learned Fanziquan from many sources. Upon learning with Grandmaster Liang, I was introduced through my good friend and classmate Hassan Bashil to the famous Ma Shi Tongbei Martial Studies (馬氏通備武學), which comprises of various styles such as Bajiquan (八極拳), Piguaquan (劈挂拳), Chuojiao (戳腳), 10 Road Tantui (十路彈腿), and of course Fanziquan. So, in the year 2000 I went to Xi’an, China, to learn Fanziquan and other Ma Shi Tongbei styles from Master Tien Chunyang (田春陽), a direct student of Grandmaster Ma Xianda (馬賢達). Also, I met other practitioners of the system living in the U.S., like Michael Li. So, I would try to get together with him to continue my learning.
EA: What made Fanziquan one of your favorite styles?
NL: Fanziquan focuses on very fast punching techniques, going in all directions, dense as rain, fast as a string of firecrackers, creating multiple openings, multiple attacks. All sustained by the flexible power methods of the Ma Shi Tongbei system. I learned all the Fanziquan forms in the system, like Zhanzhuangfan (站桩翻), Cuibafan (脆八翻), and others. Then, I also learned a unique variation Bolangfan (撥浪翻) from my Kung Fu brother Cheng Pingzhen (程平真), as well as modern Fanziquan from Chen Min (陳敏) of the Zhejiang Wushu Team. In 2006, I visited Grandmaster Ma Xianda’s own house in China, and spent time with him and his son Ma Yue (馬越) correcting and deepening my practice. In 2008, I invited Grandmaster Bai Wenxiang (白文祥) to my school, so that I could learn more Fanziquan and Double-Handed Sword. I also exchanged Fanziquan practices with another Kung Fu brother, Ma Wenguo (馬文國), who stayed at my house. Lastly, I also invited Grandmaster Guo Naihui (郭乃輝), a direct student of Grandmaster Ma Yingda (馬穎達), allowing me to perform a holistic review of the entire system with him.
EA: Having learned from so many sources, as opposed to following one single lineage of the style, can that still be considered ‘traditional’ Wushu learning?
NL: I surely think so! Not only I learned from many sources, but after all these years of practice I made the decision to start combining some of their best aspects and eliminating few commonalities or repetitions that wouldn’t add value, so each routine can have its own characteristics and concentrate on a specific set of skills. I also started to perform the movements in the forms the same way they are used in applications, ensuring practical purpose in every move. These modifications allow me to break down my forms into shorter 2-person sparring drills, and that is also how a longer Fanziquan sparring set was born. With this approach I don’t think I’m breaking away from tradition, on the contrary, I hope that with my small knowledge I am able to enhance our traditional practices and make our future brighter by bringing out the best in our students.
EA: That is a fascinating point of view. Do you have any closing comments on that approach?
NL: Well, some like to call the Chinese martial arts of the 70s or 80s as ‘Old School Wushu’, I will humbly like to call my approach as ‘Traditional Wushu of New School’. Now, I don’t believe that one approach is better than the other, but I do believe most martial arts styles were originally created by our ancestors to best utilize their own abilities and predispositions, and not to serve as material for mass teaching, except perhaps for shortened methods adopted for military training or recreational practice. So why should we treat them as such? To my understanding, martial arts require a long period of training to build the proper foundation, which can only be achieved by practicing the old core of the system. But once we achieve a certain level of understanding, we should be able to free ourselves in order to continue evolving. This way, by connecting our hard training with our own capabilities, heart, and mind; we can then become true martial ‘artists’ and reach higher levels of growth and development. Therefore, I think that if we only focus our practice in the old ways, the old methods, we would only help to kill the art and sadly bury the traditions!
