CLF/Plum Blossom in NYC

[Ronin maximus]

hmmmmmmmmmmmm

No, I just happen to have that in common with him.
Let's just say I WAS a student of his.

[lkfmdc]

the "infamous thread" was from 10-2006 and you joined in 11-2006

only problem is your command of the English language is much too advanced....

OK, you WERE (I WAS) a student, then why do you care?

[cjurakpt]

Again with the web-kido.

no, because you originally asked two questions and I wanted to know which which one specifically you still wanted answered; but since you are chosing to be a wise-aZZ about it, I guess there's no point in continuing until you settle down a bit

[lkfmdc]

what's even funnier is, as we speak, "person x" is still lurking about

[cjurakpt]

what's even funnier is, as we speak, "person x" is still lurking about

ya think? really?

[cjurakpt]

no, because you originally asked two questions and I wanted to know which which one specifically you still wanted answered; but since you are chosing to be a wise-aZZ about it, I guess there's no point in continuing until you settle down a bit

I guess that this was just too complicated for Ronin Maximus to understand? or perhaps he's just lost interest...

anyway, I'll just do him the "favor" of answering part 2 of his original query:

here's how it was: CTS was far from discerning when it came to making people "official" representatives of this or that; what that meant was that the good and the not-so-good got the same sort of recognition; in most cases thought, the not-so-goods didn't last very long - they couldn't talk to CTS, they didn't understand what he was doing/showing them - it was pretty much a self-limiting phennomenon; however, there were exceptions to the rule: some people just stuck it out due to shear thickness and having lots of $$$ (e.g. - remember Goo-ling?); others got wise to the fact that they couldn't hack it alone and attached themselves as students to some of the more accomplished of the "inner circle"; some eventually left to go do other things because they wanted more detail than they could get (like me - my Cantonese was functional but not as detailed as others); Dave, Mike and the 3 Steve's were able to stick it out, because they spent a LOT of time organizing what they were taught and figuring out how to teach it in a way that didn't send students running for the hills; in the case of "he-who-shall-not-be-named", he got brought up to speed by several others (I remember the first several times he showed up at 440 Lafayette - completely cluless - for example, he had no idea what CTS wanted when CTS was showing me and him a 2-person set, and I had only been around for about a year, whereas he was supposedly this master of kung fu...) and was kept there by those of us who could speak to CTS - but he was constantly forgetting what he was taught (my Lord! CTS's nick-name for him was "no-memory-guy" for cryin' out loud!), and he actually took pride in the fact that he couldn't speak Cantonese, because like that he wouldn't have to deal with CTS making any sorts of crazy demands on him (something the rest of us endured frequently);

so anyway, the "answer" is that CTS was not too picky about who he "sanctioned" to teach,meaning that "shortcomings" were not of much concern to him; of course, it begs the question, what qualifies anyone to teach if his criteria were so lax? good question! anser: go to each person and discern for oneself based on what they tell you, what they show you, and how that jives with your individual ability to critically evaluate a situation...

[lkfmdc]

here's how it was: CTS was far from discerning when it came to making people "official" representatives of this or that;

CTS's exact thoughts, which he expressed to me directly on MANY occassions, was that those "who know" will spot the real and know the fake

Those who didn't know enough to disccern, didn't matter anyway...

I did NOT agree and we argued about the issue frequently

in most cases thought, the not-so-goods didn't last very long - they couldn't talk to CTS, they didn't understand what he was doing/showing them - it was pretty much a self-limiting phennomenon;

and to CTS they weren't even worth a second thought, those who "got it" did and those who did not didn't matter....

some people just stuck it out due to shear thickness and having lots of $$$ (e.g. - remember Goo-ling?);

as long as "the check cleared", CTS tolerated a lot of people, but that is not a secret at all

others got wise to the fact that they couldn't hack it alone and attached themselves as students to some of the more accomplished of the "inner circle";

and thus, got their material from students while still claiming to be "inner circle"....

in the case of "he-who-shall-not-be-named", he got brought up to speed by several others (I remember the first several times he showed up at 440 Lafayette - completely cluless - for example, he had no idea what CTS wanted when CTS was showing me and him a 2-person set, and I had only been around for about a year, whereas he was supposedly this master of kung fu...)

master of "Cha Nu Fi Pai" (credit to Mike P for that one)

[Ronin maximus]

You guys just won't let this thread die, I guess you ARE trying to "break his rice cup"
I will not be the tool by which you accomplish that.

And now for the kicker - LKMDFC how do you know you are the real deal?

And not strung along by CTS like you say person "X" was.
Stop and think about this. You all learned much Kung Fu from CTS. Take it and SHARE it. That's all I or anyone who are not as fortunate as you ask. You ARE a Sifu aren't you? This is your RESPONSIBILITY!

Please do not use the "Kung FU fantasyland" excuse, we all know what classical Kung Fu is worth these days.
In other words one man's junk is another man's treasure.

[cjurakpt]

You guys just won't let this thread die, I guess you ARE trying to "break his rice cup"
I will not be the tool by which you accomplish that.

hey d0rk-o: you asked a question; I actually avoided answering it for just the reason that you cite, I didn't really want to get too specific (although, TBH, if you really think that the people who fill his or most any teacher's rice cup are the ones that read this forum, you are delusional; and since we haven't named anyone specifically, 99% of the readers here won't know who we are talking about anyway, derrr); but you wouldn't leave it at that, would you? if anyone, you were the one who pushed things as being related to one person specifically; and when I demurred, you persisted with repeated claims of web-ki-do; so I figured why not, I'll answer your question, both in general and then somewhat specifically, because it might be instructive for some people on here as to the reality of what it was like as opposed to the fantasy, and maybe it would save them a few wasted years chasing around a fantasy; so really, you aren't a tool for anything (don't give yourself that much credit), but you are a TOOL, that's for certain

And now for the kicker - LKMDFC how do you know you are the real deal?

it has to do with continuity, not to mention a little bit of effort put into one's study; but then again, you're right - in fact, how do we know anyone is "the real deal"; in fact, what exactly does it mean to be the "real deal"? I think you need to be clearer on your basic definitions; but if being able to speak and write with coherently about the topic (as opposed to copying Dave's writing verbatim on a website without citing him as the author), having university level training in Chinese history and language, being able to consistently discuss the style's content and history without changing stories every 5 minutes, and running a successful gym based on his very clearly articulated pespective of how he believes TCMA needs to evolve in the current climate (as opposed to wrapping himself in the flag of tradition and burying his head in the proverbial sand), I think you are on the right track;

And not strung along by CTS like you say person "X" was.

you seem to miss the point - person "x" wasn't actually strung along the way most were - he was actually taught good stuff, because he was physically adept and eventually was able to get what was going on up to a point...but remembering it and then being honest about the circumstances surrounding it, well...and BTW, to a point, yes, we were all strung along, but that's as may be...

Stop and think about this. You all learned much Kung Fu from CTS. Take it and SHARE it. That's all I or anyone who are not as fortunate as you ask. You ARE a Sifu aren't you? This is your RESPONSIBILITY!

are you like, 5 years old? do ou live in a comic book? no one has any freaking responsibility to do anything; and as for poor little you being unfortunate - boo hoo - you have no idea...

Please do not use the "Kung FU fantasyland" excuse, we all know what classical Kung Fu is worth these days. In other words one man's junk is another man's treasure.

in that case you must be wealthy beyond belief...

[lkfmdc]

LKMDFC how do you know you are the real deal?

a little dense aern't we? or perhaps never paid attention

LONG BEFORE I met CTS, I had done like 7 years of Hung Ga, I had studied Shuai Jiao with Jeng Hsin Ping (one of the foremost figures in the world in that art). I had studied Dragon with Wing Hong Yip. I had done 7 star mantis with students of Chiu Leun. OH, and I had black belts in TKD, Hapkido and Shotokan

AFTER I met CTS, I studied with people like YC Wong, Adam Hsu and Tai Yim. I also traveled far and wide meeting otehr Tibeta martial arts people, including Wong Ching

Oh, and that school I run, and those fighters I train.....

[djcaldwell]

Dave / Chris - you know what guys like this, and the whole lot of repititious troglodytes don't warrant the recitation of your credentials. They want to see your accomplishments and what makes you "real" -

Let them Google you up - see the list of fighters under Dave - actually try reading some the very insightful posts that are on this forum. Some the articles he has written and even better - spend some time at his gym. I've been there and wish he was closer because I would be there more.

No joke, real deal training - I've met his fighter, I've seen them fight and had the pleasure of working out with some of them as well.

At this point the argument of whether or not he's real is just ridiculous. Not only is he real but he is really good at training people as is apparent by the fighters that his school continues to produce.

[lkfmdc]

Dave / Chris - you know what guys like this, and the whole lot of repititious troglodytes don't warrant the recitation of your credentials.

YOu're right, I should have just posted

"Dear Ronin Maximus, I'm truly sorry you wasted a lot of time studying with someone who didn't represent themselves or what they teach in a truthful manner and didn't really have a heck of a lot of concern for those who were attending his program, paying him money and putting their trust in him. However, none of that is my fault and has no bearing on who I am, what I know, or how I teach. If you're bitter, I completely understand, but focus your resntment where it belongs...."

[djcaldwell]

YOu're right, I should have just posted

"Dear Ronin Maximus, I'm truly sorry you wasted a lot of time studying with someone who didn't represent themselves or what they teach in a truthful manner and didn't really have a heck of a lot of concern for those who were attending his program, paying him money and putting their trust in him. However, none of that is my fault and has no bearing on who I am, what I know, or how I teach. If you're bitter, I completely understand, but focus your resntment where it belongs...."

Yup. Nuff Said.

[specialed]

a little dense aern't we? or perhaps never paid attention

LONG BEFORE I met CTS, I had done like 7 years of Hung Ga, I had studied Shuai Jiao with Jeng Hsin Ping (one of the foremost figures in the world in that art). I had studied Dragon with Wing Hong Yip. I had done 7 star mantis with students of Chiu Leun. OH, and I had black belts in TKD, Hapkido and Shotokan

AFTER I met CTS, I studied with people like YC Wong, Adam Hsu and Tai Yim. I also traveled far and wide meeting otehr Tibeta martial arts people, including Wong Ching

Oh, and that school I run, and those fighters I train.....

don't leave out the rest of the list you posted before

Originally Posted by lkfmdc
People I've studied directly with
Chan Tai San (Lama Pai/Choy Lay Fut)
Jeng Hsin Ping (Shuai Jiao)
YC Wong (Pek Gwa)
Thomas Yeung (Hung Ga)
Tai Yim (Hung Fut)
Yip Wing HOng (Dragon Style)
Cheung Wah (7 star praying mantis and Fukien Lion)
Ho Chih Yu (7 star mantis)
Wong Ching (Lama Pai)
Adam Hsu (Ba Ji, Long Fist)
Tam Jam (Village Hung)
"Iron Head" Li (Village Hung)

clearly you spent many years of quality time with each of these teachers and mastered what they had to teach

[cjurakpt]

don't leave out the rest of the list you posted before
clearly you spent many years of quality time with each of these teachers and mastered what they had to teach

oh that's right - school is back in session, so I guess the Kindergarten kids have acess to the internet again