WSL Ving Tsun - Sifu Cliff Au Yeung - Blindfold Gor Sau Training

[Wayfaring]

And for all you guys out there that think you can't do wing chun with gloves on, I really really hope that you never find yourself in a situation like in snow with mittens on in a self defense scenario.

What will you do?

"Uh, excuse me for a second there, mr. attacker while I remove my mittens. I am unable to dispatch you at the moment because my hands are covered and I can't do wing chun".

[guy b.]

Even if everything you say is true for how you do wing chun the problem you run into is how do you practice really punching and by that I mean solidly striking your opponent without gloves and other protection? Because if you are not doing that not solidly striking your sparring partner you are not really sparring you are just playing around.

Lol at your fear of taking a punch from a normal fist.

It is 100% possible to body spar regularly without gloves. No issue at all in doing this and there is literally no sense in doing it with gloves, at all, ever

With face punching you do need to do it regularly without gloves to make your wing chun functional as Graham H says. I made similar arguments a while back (although Graham gives more and better reasons) and got ridiculed but it is true, wing chun doesn't work properly without gloves. If you don't spar without gloves you aren't sparring wing chun. More likely you are boxing. Boxing is the hitting style that works gloved (obviously). You just need to do it as often as you and your training partners can stand it.

This is probably a horrible reality for some people but it is true.

[guy b.]

And for all you guys out there that think you can't do wing chun with gloves on, I really really hope that you never find yourself in a situation like in snow with mittens on in a self defense scenario.

What will you do?

"Uh, excuse me for a second there, mr. attacker while I remove my mittens. I am unable to dispatch you at the moment because my hands are covered and I can't do wing chun".

Something that isn't wing chun. Luckily I don't tend to live in arctic climates.

Why do you think all battlefield (i.e. encumbered, overdressed) unarmed MA featured grappling and zero striking?

[guy b.]

imagine if they did not have gloves or head gear or mouthpieces.

Split lip, black eye, cuts, the odd knockdowns (although they are hitting very light). Nothing unusual

[guy b.]

Look I advocate sparring in all scenarios - gear, no gear, light, hard. Except use a mouthpiece / gum shield for all of it, and a cup. There are good and bad points about each method.

Sounds sensible

[guy b.]

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Since you asked. Not debating specially with Graham.

1. You dont need boxing gloves to do wing chun.
2.You can test whether you can deliver power through muffled hands... with many wing chun motions. or there maybe some contest requiring gloves but allowing you to do wing chun.
3. you can use wing chun structure and motion rather than boxing- and not bobbing and weaving.
4. If you develop wing chun "short power" you can hit with either hand
5 you can step in and punch with vertical fist, you can punch upward, down ward, whipping inside or our, use your lan bridge fpr hitting. hammer fist etc.
6. for defense you can pak.jut, gum fak etc and much more.

Developing short explosive power is the key.There is much more but I give the idea.

Ok thanks for the reply.

The main issue I have with boxing gloves is not issuing power though and so I feel your points related to this are somewhat moot.

I disagree with your points 3, 5 and 6 for reasons covered in Graham's post.

However my main point of disagreement is that gloves change responses and timing too much to use wing chun. What do you feel about this?

[Wayfaring]

Something that isn't wing chun. Luckily I don't tend to live in arctic climates.

Oh ye men of little imagination. Move to the desert? Seriously?

Why do you think all battlefield (i.e. encumbered, overdressed) unarmed MA featured grappling and zero striking?

Not sure I have seen battlefield armor plus unarmed, especially grappling only. Wait. One company I worked for during the annual picnic rented out these inflatable sumo suits and had a competition. That was really a blast.

[k gledhill]

Ok thanks for the reply.

The main issue I have with boxing gloves is not issuing power though and so I feel your points related to this are somewhat moot.

I disagree with your points 3, 5 and 6 for reasons covered in Graham's post.

However my main point of disagreement is that gloves change responses and timing too much to use wing chun. What do you feel about this?

#6 makes me grin.

[tc101]

I didn't see anything in that round that would have required headgear like they are wearing.

Are you saying you don't think it's possible to bare knuckle spar in a light fashion like that clip without really injuring each other? I disagree.

Look I advocate sparring in all scenarios - gear, no gear, light, hard. Except use a mouthpiece / gum shield for all of it, and a cup. There are good and bad points about each method.

There is a reason they wear the gear and it isn't fashion. If you hit bone to bone which is any face or head shot you will I repeat will get nasty cuts. That is why they wear the gear.

Where are the videos of people really sparring without gear?

[tc101]

Lol at your fear of taking a punch from a normal fist.

It is 100% possible to body spar regularly without gloves. No issue at all in doing this and there is literally no sense in doing it with gloves, at all, ever

With face punching you do need to do it regularly without gloves to make your wing chun functional as Graham H says. I made similar arguments a while back (although Graham gives more and better reasons) and got ridiculed but it is true, wing chun doesn't work properly without gloves. If you don't spar without gloves you aren't sparring wing chun. More likely you are boxing. Boxing is the hitting style that works gloved (obviously). You just need to do it as often as you and your training partners can stand it.

This is probably a horrible reality for some people but it is true.

We were not talking body sparring. I think even then you want gloves to prevent incidental damage.

I keep hearing about this sparring with no protection so why can no one simply show me a video?

If wing chun can't be practiced without gloves then you simply can't spar seriously which means you can never develop into a good fighter. It is the gear that allows us to put in the rounds.

[guy b.]

There is a reason they wear the gear and it isn't fashion. If you hit bone to bone which is any face or head shot you will I repeat will get nasty cuts. That is why they wear the gear.

Where are the videos of people really sparring without gear?

Lol at demanding video like someone owes you something. Take it or leave it would be my recommendation to you.

[guy b.]

If wing chun can't be practiced without gloves then you simply can't spar seriously which means you can never develop into a good fighter. It is the gear that allows us to put in the rounds.

You are saying that something you haven't tried (because you fear it) is simply too dangerous to try. And so you don't believe anyone has tried it.

Do you see how ridiculous this is?

[guy b.]

We were not talking body sparring. I think even then you want gloves to prevent incidental damage.

No, not ever. Nobody needs gloves for body sparring. It is done all the time in full contact karate to no ill effect (apart from pain and the odd broken rib or hand). Well worth doing though because no gloves is how you fight in reality.

[LFJ]

Viagramusti's WC works with boxing gloves because his WC punches like this ;

[tc101]

Lol at demanding video like someone owes you something. Take it or leave it would be my recommendation to you.

I am not demanding anything. People say they do gloveless sparring and I do not believe it. They may do something gloveless but it sure isn't sparring since they would be getting stitches after every training session. There is a reason there are no videos and anyone with a lick of common sense knows what that is.