Bruce Lee: One of a kind martial artists

[laugarkuen]

Use your brain before you make a general, assanine coment. Also, before you start attacking me personally about a thread that has nothing to do with me... consider if you're willing to get your ass kicked by me. I'm in NYC for 4 more weeks and occasionally you like to jab at me.

We met once at a Throwdown. You've seen my handwork and I'm sure there's no doubt in either of our minds of what the outcome would be like. So why not be nice?

That's a wondrously thuggish thing to say and oh so mature. Disagree with me and I'll pound you.

Just cause you hit someone does not make you right or deserving respect. That last post makes you sound like a bully.

Michael

[Ray Pina]

To compare the MMA fighters with Kick Boxers of that era is ludicrous apples and oranges. KC

I agree with you.

I'm not saying Bruce Lee was a kook. I'm saying he was a small, light man. A ripped man at 130lbs. still aint going to compare with a seasoned fighter of 225lbs... which there were plenty of in his day.

This isn't an attack on Bruce Lee. Its an attack on people who can't let go of what they want to believe and look at the reality of the matter.... perhaps, because once they do that it may change the way they have to look at the way they've been looking at things.

I'm not talking about comparing then vs now. That's no question. But to me, equally of no question is comparing Bruce to others back then.

What ring fights did he fight in high school? Any records of that, or does just saying that help you. Street fights? What healthy young boy/man hasn't been in one.

Even if he beat everyone he fought in Hong Kong... who where they? Do you really think he was able to beat the Russian, UK, US heavy weight boxing champions of the time?

Do you think if he could, with his ego, he wouldn't have... and promoted the hell out of it?

[rogue]

And if you seriously believe the kick boxing of the 70s and 80s (I was studying Issin-Ryu at the time and my sensei's son was a pro kick boxer, saw Suger Foot Wallace fight on the same car at the Garden) is at the same level of MMA today there's nothing really to discuss.

You have to look back to the fights of the 60's and 70's where people were being maimed and killed all of the time. Those men were fighting at a much higher level than most of those who fight now. I think one reason for the fighters of Bruce's time being more deadly was that they were closer to the original training methods, now things are watered down. Have you ever heard of Count Dante? He was the one man that might have defeated Bruce Lee, but no matter what the winner of that fight would have been crippled. Those men were serious about fighting as the Dojo Wars of the 60's and early 70's proved.


And thank goodness the Gracie family came up with a very safe martial art that even children can do safely. Rorian single handedly saved the martial arts from itself.

The Real Original Lucky Louie

[kwaichang]

He just fought one ring fight to my knowledge a no body just another boxer. At that time people who fought on the street did not end it with a gun as they do now. It was mano a mano. You continually want records or something all I have is the 1st hand story of an eye witness who saw Bruce hit a man with a 1 inch punch the man was a foot ball player who wighed 225. he knocked the man six feet into a pool and bruised the mans heart. the man was hospitalized for a day or so. CAN YOU OR LIDDELL DO THAT ? I would say no. also this was through a phone book approx 2 inches thick. It may look like a trick until you received the impact. Physics, velocity X mass = one he// of a punch. If you want to do grappling given Bruce may have been beaten if you could get a hold of him and to compare a 225 seasoned fighter to a 135 pound fighter is wrong. again the mass overcomes the velosity especially when there is no room to move.
Also steroids play a major role in the MMA matches of today , Let me think die at 45 from cancer or live to 85 practising a CMA I wll do the CMA also the MMA fighter is also a ring fighter as well so they have limitations as well KC

[lkfmdc]

You have to look back to the fights of the 60's and 70's where people were being maimed and killed all of the time.

it's true! I was killed twice, maybe three times, back in those days

[BruceSteveRoy]

but i never knew that UFC fighters juice. I have seen a lot of people that do and i cant think of any UFCers that have the tell tale signs. (the excess of cord like veins in the amrs, bacne, premature baldness etc.) i don't know anything about pride or any of the other MMA organizations or their fighters but if anyone would care to point out some cases in point i am curious. i am not saying they don't mind you. i don't know one way or another but i would be curious to look a little more critically at who is supposedly injecting steroids.

[hjt]

actually some fighters have tested positive for steroids, randleman, bonner, beltford, and there was a documentary on tv about steroid use and this unknown fighter took steroids. but just because a small factor of fighters do use steroids doesnt mean that all do.

as for 60's and 70's full contacting fighting, i read an interview with chuck norris, about how he was in a tournament and a riot broke him, superfoot, joe lewis and i think the man himself Benny Urquidez got into a brawl with the audience.

[Ray Pina]

Like I said, I was involved in Issin-ryu in 1978. Started comepting shortly there after. Was at all the Don Negle tournaments, all those legend's tournaments. It was all point sparring with some light face contact allowed for men adults.

As for these murderous school wars.... when and where? Something like that would be in the paper, right?

But to keep it simple, just Bruce Lee's involvement?

As for one-inch punch... I've learned to produce KO power from touching... zero inches. If you'de like proof I can get video for you.

However, I have seen even more incredible things on video with my own eyes (never mind from first hand accounts). Just a few weeks ago we had an "old school" master who could throw his students around from a distance get his a$$ beat embarrasingly easily by a no-name, smaller, practioner.

I'm not going to argue this point anymore. Bruce Lee is the best martial artists of all time.... even though he's never competed against professional fighters of his same weight (never mind bigger) and we have no proof of him beating anyone remotely famous in a real fight. What we do have is one account of one fight in which both sides claim victory but somehow afterwards Bruce Lee was injured.

Funny, this one fight (which he may have lost) was given so much lip service by him... you'd think you'd hear about others if there were some, especially against well knowns. But maybe that's just me.

I'm also electing Stalone as the greatest military war hereo this nation's ever had... even though he dodged the draft. I saw him shoot a viet cong out of an elevated fox hole with an arrow... he single handely attacked a prison camp, endured electric shock torture, etc.

Pat Tilman, an American who gave up millions to go fight and die for our country. No, he couldn't compete with that. Just like men who aren't rich, train night and day, through injury, go fight regularly and have the results posted for the world to see.... they can't compete with Bruce Lee's 1-inch punch. No way.

[Knifefighter]

he was the forefather of MMA, he started like most fighters started with traditional chinese martial arts, but realized that you need more than just one style to be well rounded, he began to study western boxing, judo, catch wrestling, TKD, jujitsu, and silat. this sounds familiar, wait this is the foundation for MMA.

Carlos and Helio Gracie were the forefathers of MMA. They were fighting MMA before Bruce was born.

BTW, Bruce never studied Silat and his FMA was just a few sessions with Dan.

[Knifefighter]

Also the fights of the 70,80 's had different rules but there are those of that time that would have given Liddel and others a good run for their money. I fought during that time and if the MMA were going on at that time I would have done it. Those guys are filled with enhancing "vitamins" and other things that enhance their performance I am sure much like Lance Armstrong but at that level it is hard to detect. To compare the MMA fighters with Kick Boxers of that era is ludicrous apples and oranges. KC

I am also an old f@rt who fought during that time and I believe the fighters of today are light years ahead of those during those days- especially if you are talking all ranges, including the ground.

[hjt]

Carlos and Helio Gracie were the forefathers of MMA. They were fighting MMA before Bruce was born.

BTW, Bruce never studied Silat.

if its true, i stand corrected, but at the same time they didnt study striking until the ufc days, even then their striking wasnt up to par, i know they were trying to show their style BJJ, and the only gracie that was well rounded was rickson during that time.

actually wikipedia has him as studying silat, i may be wrong since wikipedia is known to be incorrect.

anyway, bruce still thought outside the box during his time, and believed that training various style would make him a complete and effective fighter.

[rogue]

it's true! I was killed twice, maybe three times, back in those days

I've finally gotten to the third video in your series (I had to watch Battlestar Galactica and Firefly first) and I noticed that you were using the old hidden techniques and giving the secret hand signals from the Dojo War days.

I am also an old f@rt who fought during that time and I believe the fighters of today are light years ahead of those during those days- especially if you are talking all ranges, including the ground.

Maybe on the West Coast but east of the Mississippi things were different, more deadly. I've heard that Bruce Lee kept a lid on things over your way.

[Knifefighter]

if its true, i stand corrected, but at the same time they didnt study striking until the ufc days, even then their striking wasnt up to par, i know they were trying to show their style BJJ, and the only gracie that was well rounded was rickson during that time.

They were never great strikers... although they did practice it to some degree.

There was a rivalry with the Lutra Livre guys (who were more striking oriented) in Brazil for quite some time before the first UFC in the States. There were many matches between the Gracie camp and the Lutra Livre fighters before the UFC.

actually wikipedia has him as studying silat, i may be wrong since wikipedia is known to be incorrect.

Nobody in his circle had been introduced to Silat while he was still alive. Dan picked it up several years after Bruce's death.

anyway, bruce still thought outside the box during his time, and believed that training various style would make him a complete and effective fighter.

Very true... although his grappling training was very limited.

His grappling was probably about as good as the Gracie's striking.

[kwaichang]

In high school there was a guy who wrestled at 132 pounds he often beat others at 180 pounds and above. He was built alot like Bruce Lee. in arm wrestling he was undefeated by anyone and much heavier opponents. You guys try to compare a 200 # MMA that probably juices against a guy who weighed 132#at his max and just trained very hard. That is rediculous. No one can prove Bruce would have lost, remember he worked very hard and developed phenomenal skill even at his size and look at what he could do. I do not see the same level of skill in any of the people you have compared him to. KC

[Wood Dragon]

Have you ever heard of the chariot, the bow-n-arrow... these are two ancient weapons developed in Eygpt a loooong time ago. Guess what? The Romans thought it was a good idea and incorporated it.

The Roman Army was infantry-centric, from day 1 until well into the 4th Century AD. They never ever used chariots on the battlefield.

To be precise, it was not until the early 4th Century AD that the actual Roman Army formed dedicated cavalry units. Prior to this, most cavalry units were auxilii, formed from allied and client states/tribes.

Chariots were, in fact, obsolete by the early 4th Century BC, as they could not crack phalangite infantry formations.

Military archery is thought to have developed in Mesopotamia, not Egypt.